Curse

Striken7 · Sep 03, 2008, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

I said that NF killed puging cause of heros. back then there were no heros so pugging was easier cause some good players pugged

So your arguement is that the game was better back when good players were forced to play a certain way that is ineffective, slow, frustrating, and likely to fail, but now that good players have a better option (and it's obviously better, or else your whole arguement about people stopping PuG'ing because of heroes would fall apart) you think the game is actually worse?

I don't see how anyone can follow that logic and be serious at the same time.

JDRyder · Sep 03, 2008, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Striken7

So your arguement is that the game was better back when good players were forced to play a certain way that is ineffective, slow, frustrating, and likely to fail, but now that good players have a better option (and it's obviously better, or else your whole arguement about people stopping PuG'ing because of heroes would fall apart) you think the game is actually worse?

not true at all, every 1 had pug if they didnt do it with their guild, so there were more good players pugging was not that bad.

N1ghtstalker · Sep 03, 2008, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by eximiis

At the moment, you already never find a pug. That's why ppl use heroes and henchmen.

people still PUG in some situations
i PUG too even tho i can just take heroes 'n such
but what's the fun in doing it all alone while you can have a chat along the way killing stuff?

R.Shayne · Sep 03, 2008, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prophecies Game Manual

Henchmen are computer-controlled adventurers who are always available to help round out your party so you can take on missions even when you don’t have the required number of live players. Need one more player in your party? Hire a henchman. Want to play a difficult mission by yourself? Hire several henchmen.

The thing that bugs me about this is the bold part. It is like 3 years ago ANET knew pugs would fail in difficult missions and pointed out the solution. It is almost like saying, "This mission is hard so you are better off going solo and taking henchmen.

Henchmen were a feature I liked because other MMO forced you to team with other players which like guild wars resulted in failure and wasted people's time. Good example right here Leroy Jenkins

Trying to find a good pug is not just a problem in Guild Wars, it is a problem with all online games I have played. If you don't want full hero parties then at least allow henchmen in elite missions, I don't have hours to sit around trying to find people to do an elite missions just to fail at the halfway point.

I have a couple hours to play each day and I am not wasting that time with a pug that has no chance of succeeding. Two accounts and six hero for the win.

Bryant Again · Sep 03, 2008, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

when? when i pugged it on my monk back before heros i did it 1st time.

So therefore every one liked it?

I'm not sure about your experience, but the experience I had as well as many, many others was the outright shitiness that came with having to pug difficult missions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

so? I have a lack of caring about if you have to play with henchmen cause you dont want to play with other players.

If you don't care about what I'm saying then why are you talking to me?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

nonono your misunderstanding me, i want ALL heros gone so you cant play alone.

Then, quite honestly, get out. You forcing a playstyle down *MY* throat is no less damaging than the conception that heroes have had on pugging.

I also want to note that, as it's always been, the people who are going to benefit the most from heroes are people who've spent an exclusive amount of time on the game. Heroes are not "win" buttons, they're not overpowered. You need to know what you're doing with all of the professions to know how to succeed (Sabway not included, lolz).

Since most people are *not* that good at the game, they won't see a whole lot in heroes especially with the faulty and often unpredictable AI. Because of that, they'll continue to pug.

JDRyder · Sep 03, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Then, quite honestly, get out. You forcing a playstyle down *MY* throat is no less damaging than the conception that heroes have had on pugging.

sure in a SP game do all of that you want but in a online RPG like Guild wars you have to come to a general agreement cause every change effects every 1. Now if your playing a online game and only want to use heros whats the point in playing a online game like GW? to stay away from other players? thats not a good reason imo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I also want to note that, as it's always been, the people who are going to benefit the most from heroes are people who've spent an exclusive amount of time on the game. Heroes are not "win" buttons, they're not overpowered. You need to know what you're doing with all of the professions to know how to succeed (Sabway not included, lolz).

i take it you have not seen discord.

eximiis · Sep 03, 2008, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker

people still PUG in some situations
i PUG too even tho i can just take heroes 'n such
but what's the fun in doing it all alone while you can have a chat along the way killing stuff?

Heroes don't ever quit unless you told them

Heroes don't say "pei pei, gougou shit, lalallalllal" and i'm being nice with the word.

With heroes, i have bonus on all mission. Not with pugger. (gorges : i don't need bonus. Elly : what is bonus ?? Mimi : pei pei !!)

Heroes run what i want for the mission/exploring !

Have u ever made a Quest with a pug ??? i've not done that for a long time.

edit : oh and what if "I" want to run 2 mesmer, 2 dervish, 2 assassin and 2 rit (healer) ?? can pug do things like taht ??

waht if a pug needs warrior, ele, monk, cookie cookie cookie i'm a dervish or a mesmer or a ritualist or ......

7 heroes is ftw

as for the pugs, how about finding a guild and do the talking part with them ??

Bryant Again · Sep 03, 2008, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

sure in a SP game do all of that you want but in a online RPG like Guild wars you have to come to a general agreement cause every change effects every 1.

Exactly. Now, keep that in mind while at the same time saying once again how you'd like to remove heroes altogether.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Now if your playing a online game and only want to use heros whats the point in playing a online game like GW? to stay away from other players? thats not a good reason imo.

It's *part* of the reason. Would *you* want to play a game with people treated you like shit, especially moreso given the fact that you have to be in a party for every single area of the game? I most certainly would not. However, with Henchmen and even moreso with heroes, I'm given the option of playing the game in a less socially spiteful but more restricted way, and with that option I'm able to complete an overwhelming majority of the game. It's a win-win.

More than anything else, we have no idea whatsoever of what will happen with 7 heroes. If you look way back further in the thread you'll see me against the notion. But then came Ursan, more PvE skills, buff to elites *and* the PvE skills. Because of all these additions and changes, I highly doubt people will go "ZOMG HEROES" and quit pugging altogether. The possibility of a team with 24 PvE skills is for many a hard thing to throw away, especially since with heroes they would have to be making team builds *themselves* and having to deal with bad AI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

i take it you have not seen discord.

I've seen many things, many good elites, good builds, and good skills. But I get the most out of them because I know my shit, know what's good and what sucks, and know what works with what. Simply slapping a good elite on your bar rarely makes your build awesomesauce. Knowing a good build and especially know what skills your heroes will actually use correctly (very annoying) is how you'll get the most of heroes. Otherwise, you're better off with henchmen.

JDRyder · Sep 03, 2008, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Exactly. Now, keep that in mind while at the same time saying once again how you'd like to remove heroes altogether.

yep i dont remember ever saying that adding them was good thing, i still think the game was better before heros were added, i saw more people in outpost, good players still puged etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

It's *part* of the reason. Would *you* want to play a game with people treated you like shit, especially moreso given the fact that you have to be in a party for every single area of the game? I most certainly would not. However, with Henchmen and even moreso with heroes, I'm given the option of playing the game in a less socially spiteful but more restricted way, and with that option I'm able to complete an overwhelming majority of the game. It's a win-win.

Im not sure why so many people say pugs are assholes, ive never had a pug talk shit to me. ever think it may just be u?

any way it is the internet, if you dont what to be treated like shit id disconnect from it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

More than anything else, we have no idea whatsoever of what will happen with 7 heroes.

its easy to tell how the game will be if they add 7heros, take how dead pugging is right now and how unsocial it is for newer and older players, and then multiply that by 2.

Bryant Again · Sep 03, 2008, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

yep i dont remember ever saying that adding them was good thing, i still think the game was better before heros were added, i saw more people in outpost, good players still puged etc.

I still see outposts fairly active, I'm not sure what districts you're playing in. Granted, they're not *as* popular as they used to be, but see below for my explanation for that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Im not sure why so many people say pugs are assholes, ive never had a pug talk shit to me. ever think it may just be u?

"Im not sure why so many people say pugs arent assholes, ive always had a pug talk shit to me. ever think it may just be u?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

any way it is the internet, if you dont what to be treated like shit id disconnect from it.

Or play with heroes and henchies : P

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

its easy to tell how the game will be if they add 7heros, take how dead pugging is right now and how unsocial it is for newer and older players, and then multiply that by 2.

So it's entirely the heroes' fault, right? It's most definitely not the age of the game, the mass of the game, the instancing, the lack of a wide-global party search, and the at times liability of other players, correct? /sarcasm

This is where you have the lose-lose situation when it comes to pugs. If there weren't heroes, then A. the "good" players, fed-up with pugs, quit playing, or B. the "good" players, fed-up with pugs, find a good guild and only play with guildies.

In other words, pugs are hopeless. The more you cater to them the shittier the game gets (for a good example see Ursan pre-nerf).

eximiis · Sep 03, 2008, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

its easy to tell how the game will be if they add 7heros, take how dead pugging is right now and how unsocial it is for newer and older players, and then multiply that by 2.

Then compare this amount with the amount social a guild offers !!

Why would i socialize with a pug, if i want to talk, ill talk to guildies!

Mr. Undisclosed · Sep 03, 2008, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

A lot of times it looks something like this
Loki: hey guys lets do fow

LuLu: YEA LETS DO FOW
Me: yay fow

Evyl: Kay meet at GH noobs
Trubs: GUMBALLs!
Mike: Let me get a new hammer 1st
Quink: lets do DoA we have not done that forever we did fow last night

LuLu: YEA LETS DO DOA
Sigh: wow im owning this team in RA ATM
Mike: do you need a Hammer war for DoA?
Trubs: GUMBALLS!
Tyla: wow theres a lot of noobs on guru in campfire right now
Scarn: hey evyl
Scarn: evyl
Scarn: evyl
Scarn: evyl
Evyl: WHAT!
Scarn: hi
Evyl: .....
LuLu: hey guys im going to go HA l8rz
Loki: so we're not doing fow?
Me: f*** if i know
Trubs: GUMBALLS
Mike: we have not done Bogroots forever why dont we just do that? Ill get to smash things with a hammer
All of the guild: BOGROOTS!
Snow bunny: guys im ghey
All of the guild: GTFO
Trubs: GUMBALLS

I lol'ed at how true that is XD

Zahr Dalsk · Sep 03, 2008, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

sure in a SP game do all of that you want but in a online RPG like Guild wars you have to come to a general agreement cause every change effects every 1. Now if your playing a online game and only want to use heros whats the point in playing a online game like GW? to stay away from other players? thats not a good reason imo.

Because many of us are playing a singleplayer Guild Wars (or were playing; D2 and DoW are much more entertaining right now). That's intended by ArenaNet as a fully acceptable playstyle, though it's been implemented very, very poorly.

Here it is again since you seem to have missed it or ignored it.

Singleplayer or multiplayer, this game is for both, the only problem is that henchmen are poorly implemented and heroes, while pretty good, are limited. No one would be harmed if 7 heroes were implemented.

Numa Pompilius · Sep 03, 2008, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Now if your playing a online game and only want to use heros whats the point in playing a online game like GW?

Just for the record: "online" is not the same as "multiplayer". Games which use log-in servers and/or content streaming as copy protection like, say, Half Life2 or Video Poker do, are online, but not all online games are multiplayer games.
That something is "online" does not automatically mean "multiplayer".

Hyper Cutter · Sep 03, 2008, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

no theres a lack of people pugging cause every is using heros, whens the last time you have been to Kam,KC or LA? most the time dis 1 is full and the other 9 districts are full of people as well, and then you have to count in the Europe districts as well

Maybe you should venture beyond the port cities...

Also, if you remove heroes, most of the people who used them won't start using pugs, they'll just use the hench. The same thing they were probably doing before heroes were introduced.

vandevere · Sep 03, 2008, 11:37 PM // 23:37

As someone who both PUGs and uses H/H, I find that I enjoy both, and that it really depends upon two factors.

1)What's available at the time.

2)How I'm feeling at the time.

Lots of times I just feel like interacting with a group; and generally I've had good luck, and met some pretty decent people. Sure, I've also met idiots who like to sketch male genitalia on the Mission Map, and others who rage-quit at the worst possible time. But, mostly it's been fun.

But there are times when I want to take a H/H Team out because I simply don't want to deal with anyone; maybe I've had a rotten day, and just want to take out my frustrations on poor, hapless monsters.

Then, there are also the times when I'm in the mood to socialize, but there just isn't anyone around-this doesn't happen anywhere near as often as the alarmists would have us believe, btw-and I just don't want to wait two, or three hours, in the hope someone will turn up to kill monsters with me...

All that being said, I am in favor of 7 Heroes. It wouldn't stop me from PUGGING when I'm in a PUGGING mood. I'd still PUG, and have fun.

But, for those other times, when I don't feel like socializing-or for when there simply isn't anyone around to PUG with-I'd sure appreciate those Heroes then...

Really, for me it's all about having fun the way I want to have fun, at that particular point in time...

DreamWind · Sep 03, 2008, 11:55 PM // 23:55

You are all ridiculous for voting yes. Don't you realize that this game was FAR better before heros existed? FAR FAR better. I bet I could make a poll and most people would agree with me, thus completely invalidating this poll.

Lishy · Sep 04, 2008, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

You are all ridiculous for voting yes. Don't you realize that this game was FAR better before heros existed? FAR FAR better. I bet I could make a poll and most people would agree with me, thus completely invalidating this poll.

How so?
Because you can get in a PuG easier?
That was because GW was smaller. Don't make claims without a reasonable argument

Bryant Again · Sep 04, 2008, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

How so?
Because you can get in a PuG easier?
That was because GW was smaller. Don't make claims without a reasonable argument

It was satire, I think.

Trub · Sep 04, 2008, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Undisclosed

I lol'ed at how true that is XD

GUMBALLS!
Didn't we end up doing UW that day?

OT:
Frenzy heroes FTW.